Hello Faye, Sorry to post this so late, however I thought I would do it anyway. Yes, so far, ES has been a pawn between KT and YD. I read somewhere that YD would actually not bother ES as much, if KT was not showing up at every single turn.

Download Korean Drama The Heirs Episode 2 with English subtitle Ep 2 eng sub.

That person made the argument that in the cafeteria, YD actually DID want to simply eat with ES, which I believe to be true. Problem is, YD still did not look or sounded particularly nice (I don’t think he knows how to, yet), and ES was literally shaking, which was not good.

I think the lunch would have gone OK, if KT had not showed up, and let ES handle it. At the same time, KT could not not show up, after hearing that YD had gone through her purse. When KT came, he saw ES trembling and he got really upset, and he yelled at ES to get up. We tend to forget that KT has also not been very nice to ES (why did he need to yell at her, when she was already feeling so frightened)?

I was not impressed with that. In any case, KT yelled, grabbed ES, and YD reacted, tripping ES (stupid, I know). Those two are so prideful, and it is not a good thing here, because it gets the best of them. KT also ordered her not to pick up his call on the rooftop, and he threatened her (if you pick up the call, I will kill him, or something like that). What the heck, KT? Can you let her handle her life? The problem is again that KT wants to react right away, when he sees ES afraid or if he thinks she is in danger.

KT does not let ES breathe, imho, he wants to make all the decisions for her, supposedly to protect her, but that is not love to me. He is not letting her stand, and have her own voice. He is overbearing (often), and I feel that he is forcing himself on her. When he does that, he is losing me. I wanted KT to let ES come to him, the way we have seen him go to her, and fall for her. ES was right, when she said that her life has been worse since KT has been in it, because well, it’s true. I get that KT feels protective of ES, however I feel that he very often goes about it the wrong way.

I also have an issue with KT wanting to date ES, when he is still engaged to Rachel. I think that is wrong, and not commendable. The Birthday Massacre Full Discography Torrent. I don’t think ES should date him, in that situation. He didn’t even have the guts to let the parents know that he wanted to date someone else, and break it off with Rachel. He told ES that he had been courageous.

About what, really? That was a very arrogant statement, imo. RE: this, “I think Young-Do is supposed to like her but also like using her to irk Tan,” I think that YD does like her, but his buttons are pushed the minute he sees KT, and it is as if he wants to punish KT (for what?), and so he uses ES to get to him. Those two behave like such children, *SMH* Thank you for clarifying things for me, about Rachel’s behavior, and you were right about it. I hope you will see my response:-). We seem to have a lot of the same feelings:) i'm pretty confused with won and hyun-joo's relationship, too. I think they're kind of together.?

In the first scene they had together (when he gave her the wishbone necklace) i thought that they weren't together and it was a one-sided thing. But then she brought him jook when he was sick, so i thought maybe they were secretly dating, since he mentioned that she never visits him like that when he's at home, and they were just keeping their relationship a secret from the chairman (and i interpreted the 'let me date' comment as a joke/comment on their secret kind-of-but-maybe-not-really-a-relationship status). They confuse me.

I very much WANT to like the main characters. I want to be able to like young-do for more than the fact that kim woo-bin plays him, but so far i haven't been able to connect with his character. There are elements i find interesting, but i'm not rooting for him, not even a little bit. I feel like some dramas write bad boy characters that you sympathize with and really want to see them change for the better.

But he's not one of them. I don't actually care if he becomes a human being. I'd be cool with his character just mysteriously disappearing after a freak motorcycling accident. I want to be able to swoon at tan's declarations of his undying love for eun-sang, but for the most part, i just can't. I don't doubt his feelings for her, but i agree with won's assessment of him as childish and eun-sang's assessment of him as a spoiled brat. I want to like eun-sang--and there are even moments in which i do like her quite a lot, but they're few and far in between. I want to like won, but he's so mean to his brother.

I was hoping we'd learn something about his character's past that would make me like him and see that he was actually protecting tan in some weird way but that hope dies a little with every episode that passes. I used to feel bad for rachel, until she started expressing her discontent with slapping and hair-pulling. I just want to shake her and say, 'girl, you're #2 in your class. Tell me again why you can't communicate in words like an intelligent human being?' Drama, why you gotta make me hate you???

I'm strangely invested in this drama. I find myself watching an episode over but half the time, I'm just confused, slightly annoyed. Captivated nevertheless. I'm rooting for more scene time for HJ and KW shipping. The scene where she's waiting, and then finally gets the text. For her to voice out that this must be the day they break up.

It's heart wrenching. I really thought it was just me but I don't even know if I am rooting for the main leads. I'm interested to see how the drama unfolds. There's those moments when I feel like I should be squealing or swooning. I find myself holding off on my response.

I react but not the way I expect or what I think the writers intended. As much as I would probably swoon to be in LMH's embrace. But it's Tan and situation. If that was me, I would have stomp on his foot and then kicked him in his shins. I don't even want to get into him being downright selfish, sheltered and so narrow minded. I hope all his 'thinking' something insanely clever comes out.

I'm sorry that just cracked me up. How did YD place higher, yes by 2 places selecting all A's.

But it's two place higher nevertheless. And then Young-Do. I swear he takes 1/10 of a step forward but 15 steps backs. Make that 25. He shoots himself on the foot. Thankfully ES shot him. Aha, I actually enjoyed that scene.

But I have to admit. There is something more with YD and ES. It's not affection or like.

Just chemistry. There's light. I don't even know if someone else agrees.

But Tan and ES? I feel like it's force. Yes, there's those longing, smoldering stares. Perhaps, its because ES is trying to distance herself from the reality of situation as well as her feelings.

Is it that they have good chemistry or is it just that he's a stand out in the cast? I'm prone to thinking it's the latter.

I'll tell you what I've noticed he's really good at, using his eyes to create sympathy. When Young-do does the equivalent of pulling Eun-sang's pigtails, and she reacts negatively, he's been able to use his eyes to express that pissing her off wasn't Young-do's intention and he doesn't seem to know how to NOT piss her off.

So now, as a viewer, I know that human affection is such an alien thing to his character, he doesn't even know how to express it even when he wants to. I know his character is using the only thing he knows how to do.which is hella sad. He's effectively created sympathy without saying or even doing anything. It's always such a plus when an actor knows how to use their eyes to tell a story. I really wish to answer your questions but I can´t.

It feels like the writer (or the editor) was half asleep doing their job. Or maybe the qhole crew was.

Writer wrote blindfolded, director did his job but not very energetically, editor, again blindfolded and then sound editor just does a shuffle for the background. So maybe that explains the kiss as well. Or something. AND THE STYLIST PICKS A FRIGGIN OLD MANS´ SWEATER FOR TAN. I can forgive a lot of things, but I can´t forgive an ugly sweater. Burn, stylist, burn.

I wish I could take all of you die hard fans of KDrama in my pocket and bring you onto the set with me. You never know when you might be recruited to take part in the show. It's happened a couple of times already where they asked those of us watching if anyone wants to be in the drama. There aren't a lot of us allowed to watch the filming because they move around a lot and we kind of get in the way. There are also a make up and script girl present for each main actor.

The stars are pretty chummy with them, putting their arms around them when they are waiting for their scene. No worries, I don't play favorites, I like my drama guys equally, especially when they are all so hot.

No, I'm not Korean, I'm from Canada. I wish I spoke better Korean so that I understood what they are saying, then I can really give you some spoilers. I just came back from another day on the set. It was awesome!! I watched LMH play around on a skateboard and play basketball for fun.

He also kicked a soccer ball around and boy does he have strong legs. I think I read somewhere he trained to play soccer when he was younger. I felt sorry for the actors, their script just came out late yesterday so they had to study their lines and film today. PSH was nodding off while sitting in the gym.

It's 12:35am here and they will not be finished filming for another 2 hours, at least. Unfortunately I did not get KWB's autograph today, I will try again next week.

I agree with A LOT of what you say. As for KT and his selfishness, you have to take into consideration that even with his illegitimate child status and poor family relationship, he's still a rich, spoiled kid. He was born into wealth and everything revolving around him and his family since the public doesn't know his real mom. In fact, the cold family relations probably adds to his selfishness. He wants at least one thing to go his way.

KT seems to crave love and affection from those he loves. His brother being the perfect example. He's never had the problem of worrying about housing and food and surviving, so he doesn't know anything about it and that's not his fault. From a writer's perspective, I like what they've done with KT's character. With his selfish ways, he seems more natural and human.

Not humane, but human. I think the writers had to make a choice between making a perfect human being (handsome, rich, smart, talented, kind, selfless) that makes the viewers fall in love with him or a realistic character with his flaws that make for a better screen write. With such unrealistic settings, it's nice to have a little dollop of reality.

I started out disliking the YD character, but week after week he does something that pulls me over to his side. He's subtle and while his actions are not alturistic there is some level of inherent respect (call me crazy). For example: breaking up the wedding photo shoot, watch him when he leaves Rachel after talking to her, (he'll tap the desk goodbye, he'll wink at her). Even when he's talking to ES, tormenting her, she seems to get under his skin. The chemistry between ES and YD is what pulls me to root for them; while the chemistry between ES and KT feels forced. LMH looks very tired. Loved when she shot him with the paint ball gun.

And while he only saved ES from Rachel because he wants to torment her; I liked that he stepped in. All told, I think his character, as tormented and bad as he is, is the one that has the most potential for growth (he and Rachel actually).

I pretty much liked the whole camping episode; from when they were all walking down the lane; they looked like kids on a camping trip. That part of the drama was a lot of fun. This is a drama with serious mama issues (with the boys) and none of girls really have father figures. Secret, although plot wise is pretty much the same we see throughout kdrama, but it is directed and shot beautifully. The actors are doing a great job IMHO because i believe them.

I love that even while the OST is playing the male lead talks in between, unlike Heirs where i think it is the only Kdrama where the drama is running dangerously close to ruining two beautiful songs, and we here the song ad nausea while the stares go on into eternity it seems. Heirs makes me mad. I like LMH even tho his range is a bit stunted so far in all he has done, the best City Hunter, and yes he captures the camera, he just is one of those. But this show is ridiculous, stuffing a 20+ stars into high school uniforms, sorry my mind cannot, or should i say will not stretch that far. I fear what we have here is exactly why i have not watched American TV or movies for over two years, HYPE HYPE HYPE and the rest they should pay me to watch. Sad to say but this drama has become hopeless. No silver lining and no character.

Even with competent actors, if the story and narrative has no substance it will take you no where. Such a huge disappointment. I will be completely dropping this drama, even the recaps. Sorry MinHo I just can't take the run around at one place of this, can't take it anymore. Anyway I don't know if ever the pace will pick up but at ep10 with the same narrative and rhythm I feel like nothing will ever happen.

I will endeavor to forget and erase this story in my head. Thanks for all eye candy Kim Tan and Chanyoung.

But that's it. Young Do crossed a line in taking the fight to Tan's house. Tan reciprocated. I'm sorry that Yong Do's father is an abusive ass.

But since the Young Do apple hasn't fallen far from the tree, I completely understand why Tan went there. You have to fight fire with fire. Especially with someone like Young Do who preys on the other person's weaknesses. Tan just pushed back at his weakness. Sometimes you beat the bully with a bigger bully.

But I didn't expect Tan to just take it and not do something real to put a stop to Young Do's disrespect for his mother. And waht exactly do you expect form tan?? He HAS to fight back if he doesn't want to be crushed! Or how do you want him to react while YD goes around damaging his life?? He's the one stirring him up.from what i saw he tried to hold it back.but before judging his character i have to ask you.wouldn't YOU do the same?

I think you would.anyone would it's in our natural instinct defending ourselfs we can't be passive when someone is attacking us.and YES sometimes is better to fight fire with fire.what other behaviour he should adopt in this conditions? @Roggy, I agree that Tan took it farther. But that was his point. He was saying, in sadly the only language YD understands, if we're taking the fight to family then lets do it. It was his way of putting their battle back on the battlefield instead of crossing into civilian territory. YD stepped over the line to test the water, and Tan showed him exactly how far he'd go if that line was even barely crossed.

I'm not saying that we're dealing with sterling characters on either side of this fight. Both boys are spoiled, entitled, arrogant, self-centered, the list could go on for days. But I firmly believe that Tan would NEVER have gone to YD's father if YD hadn't gone after Tan's mother. Where I sit if you run up in someones home and disrespect their mother you get your butt whooped.

Then when you get home, you get your butt whopped again! When Tan told his dad, and smirked when he left, I had the biggest koolaid smile on my face. Then when he got slapped, I wanted more, but sadly he couldn't use the belt. YD deserved every ounce of that and more if you asked me! How dare he go into someone else's home and belittle their mother whom they love?

He could have been ran over by a car after that, and I would have not winced not one time. Sorry not sorry. I mean, as I said in the previous episode comments, there is not much difference between Tan and Young Do. They're reacting for the same, just in their 'Father's' way. Also, YD is, I guess ok. Many people's here comment say about YD being the way he is, more to bcz Tan is on the scene.

BUT, I've a bigggg question: Whenever YD wanted to see ES, within 2 or 3 minutes, Tan would be there. Take it from the scene when ES (and Tan) showed up in the school for their first day. After that, he went to restaurant - KT came; the store - KT; school cafe - KT(twice); moreover, he went to KT's house, met ES!Now, in the camp where KT 'shouldn't be' - comes when he wanted to show his 'character' more(I don't know it's good or bad) to ES!! Just Give the guy a break! KT just wouldn't stop following around ES - in every goddamn place. What else do you expect YD to behave, when he's already a bully/has his own issues? Well, many people had big expectations I guess.(pls, No need to curse the writers n the crew, I guess).

They're doing what they like. Whatever it is, it's just a drama - good or bad. It's for entertainment only.

No hard feelings.don't we all have enough on our plates? So, while possible, let's enjoy it! I agree with most of your comment, but I'm not sure who'll lose more if KT and ES' relationship comes to light.

KT has a lot more, so obviously he would have a lot more to lose. Granted ES and her mother would lose their job and place to live, but KT may face the same too. Since his father had no qualms in exiling him 3 years ago, I wouldn't put it past him to kick him out completely. ES would at least have her mother on her side, but KT would have no one unless his mother somehow finds the courage to go against papa Kim (so far all evidence points to the contrary). Therefore, I don't see a problem with KT's comment in the wine cellar. Although I agree with GF that to the logical mind this relationship is not worth pursuing, but since when are teenage relationships based on logical sense and reason?

Granted ES went through a lot more in her 18 short years of life to put much weight, if any, into a fairy tale romance, but I won't expect KT to see where she's coming from. I wouldn't blame him for being unable to empathize with her when she is unable empathize with him either.

It is ironic, because both of them led miserable lives on the opposite ends of the extremes. KT, who has everything but care and affection in his life, would grab desperately onto this midsummer's night dream. ES, on the other hand, has a loving mother, who is willing to sacrifice anything for her two daughters. She is not starving for affection nor a fairy tale romance. Instead, she can only work hard to prevent herself and her mother from starving on the streets. Nice touch.I was cracking up with the 'Trapped in the Closet' remark. Several episodes back, Kim Tan and Young-Do became the #1 couple in Heirs to me.

Heirs is definitely flawed, but I enjoy and anticipate what both actors -Lee Min-Ho and Kim Woo Bin- will deliver each week acting wise with their characters. In their scenes together, they deliver the chemistry, angst, and constant range of emotions as their characters act and react to each other. I hope not, but Lee Hyo-Shin will probably attempt suicide again.

I agree that the image of the staircase was aesthically beautiful and symbolic of the differences in their positions as well as the image of Eun-Sang's feet hesitating to step or cross over the threshold into Tan's room. The two boys are in love.w/ each other! This would actually make the drama more interesting and explain a lot of the nonsense imo. I know Tan is getting a lot of flack for 'tattling' to Young-Do's dad, but I can understand the reasoning. I cannot, however, justify that disgusting smirk on his face when he left Young-Do alone w/ his abusive dad, knowing what was going to happen because of his words. This is our hero?

I am *very* tired of seeing Eun-Sung 'needing' to be rescued by Tan or Young-Do or even her friend whats-his-face instead of standing up for herself more often. She is constantly being dragged along, wide eyed. I love when she shows that spark, but wish it was consistent. Do we *really* need ANOTHER ep ending w/ her literally between the boys? It's no contest. She already confessed to liking Tan.

And why don't they just say she is tutoring Tan? Also tired of the looooooong scenes of her and Tan just gaaaaaaazing into the distance. And Tan's sweater collection needs to be burned. Love is my pain? Jesus Christ, this show is my pain. I hadn't realised how draining PSH and LMH were (their characters/acting, w/e it is idc) but it just made me fast forward all of their scenes. All of their conflicts were so annoying as well, especially Yoo Rachel who is irritating as hell but somehow Kim Tan looks even worse coming out of it.

She's doing exactly what he should be doing even if for the wrong reasons but he has the nerve to be pissed?? You have no sympathy from me.

At this point just grow the fuck up and try and empathise with someone other than yourself. And Cha Eun Sung is just. And yet, I really have no idea why Young Do is pretty much my real interest in this show even tho I hate/love to hate him and he's so unbelievably terrible.

His dad might be more so however (he's even more terrifying) and so yeah, I've started to feel a little sympathy but tbh he's past any kind of redemption. Yet I'm the most engaged in the show when he's on screen. Ugh Woobles, why must you do this to me. I can see why Jung Yong-hwa dropped out and for the fist time I'm kind of mad about it. Lol, I don't think Woobles would have been offered Mirae's Choice or that it would have even been a good fit for him, but I really want to see him in a rom com, he's so sweet and cuddly irl it would have been good to see him in a different kind of role. Sighing for what would never have been.: (. You and me both.:( The writer couldn't have destroyed ES's character more if she tried.

She was awesome before. Had many layers to her character. Was real and relatable. She wasn't perfect, but that's what I liked her. This was supposed to be my crack drama. Like I'm still eager to watch but also apprehensive at the same time.

This is just. Why would you make ES just object for the boys to toss around for their own agenda? And tan, too!

I loved how respectful and considerate he was of her before. His confessions was so touching.

Especially when he revealed himself to her at the house. He thought about her. And wasn't pushy. Like he's suddenly all possessive of her. If it was because he wanted to protect her and really loved her. Well IM JUST NOT SEEING IT NOW with all the YD drama. C'mon, writer.

You got 10 more eps. Please don't screw this up. Such a wasted cast. Maybe even the last LMH role? X( What a shame. LOL Her 'surprise eyes' are also her 'sad eyes' and 'confused eyes' and well.

Everything else too Hr character is a real disappointment. I expected her to be feisty like when she first met YD, both when she threatened to call the cops in ep 1 and when she took Rachel's tag. But instead, ever since we got to school, her bravery has become on-again-off-again. It's annoying. But I like her realism when talking about her relationship,with Tan. About YDs character, I actually think he's well written.

We expect people born in a materialistic and pampered world without any real love, with abusive parents to turn out like he did. It makes no sense for him to suddenly change just because he likes a girl. It's his first time too, he doesn't know how to interact with her without be condescending, but he's trying and hence hopefully we'll see some character deep elopement on his part. As for Tan character. Either your the knight in whinging armour or your the villain that keeps the heroine locked up in a tower, you can't be both.

Bad as this drama is, love all the actors and all the side characters too. Wish they had more screen time. I wouldn't mind watching an hour filled with BN, CY and MS. Plenty of abused people do not abuse. They see what is wrong and CHOOSE not to take the same road. YD CHOOSES on the other hand to be a bully, so since it is HIS choice it can't be blamed on his father, and that is a ridiculous cop out.

Every single human being have a choice, and even the wrong they do is their choice, as is the good. LMAO, Tan has not locked ES up in any castle. As you can see ES is the one calling HIM. The fact is that a lot of you guys are missing, is that Tan is not doing anything a part of ES does not want to do. Actually she is afraid that he is doing what SHE actually wants him to do. That is the difference here.

She wants him to hold on to her, she is just pushing him away because she knows that there will be consequences to what both of them want. Yonf is bettet than tan and this ep proves it. I mean tan forcefully kisses eunsang (which is straight sexual harassment in my book ( and what does young do. He gives her a bear hug. A bear hug just tells me that yongdo us actually the better if not more innocent one. I swear I thought g e was gonna forcekiss her too. I totally abhore the typical kdrama attitude of the girl first being forcefully kissed and then goes 'oh my first kiss giver, you're the one I truly love' and goes back to the place to reminiscent how wonderful her forced kiss was.

That aside, chanbona!!!!! Too adorable! It's sad how the side pairing gets more attention and action than the main OTP. And don't get me started on Young Do. No matter how awesome Kim Woo Bin is, his character is a bucket of fish wastes. Not that Tan is any better but he gets to pass the bucket because he's the main lead that we are supposed to root for.

Since ep 7, I fast forward till i see either Bo Na or Chanyoung. This is my first time watching Krystal act. I don't know anything about the quality of acting but i absolutely adore Bo Na. With Chanyoung too, of course.

This show is seriously getting so annoying. The only reason im even watching it is just get it over with since i've already started. Really disappointed with LMH's role. Like seriously dude, get over it.whats so great in Eun Sang's personality that captured you??There's absolutely nothing to her personality that stands out. And 2 guys fighting over her??pfttt.BORING! I'm actually enjoying Madam's Han's role more. Even Bo Na and her sweet boyfriend.would watch their stories anytime then the boring crap thats the main story.

So darn disappointed. On another note, how come you're not doing recaps and reviews on Secret?(sorry if i missed your earlier posts and hence not read the reasons) Now thats a show worth watching. The acting there is just amazing! Hope the main guy gets an award:). I hope this episode has changed your opinion about Young Do – who is my favorite character – because 1) it is played by Kim Woo Bin and 2) I find the character the most pitiful of all. No other character has such a horrible background. Imagine what kind of childhood he must have had.

No role model. No attention. And monster as a father. It is clear from this episode that he did all the bad things to seek for attention, that he did not know how to show affection. Acting up, turning bad – they are ways so others will be interested in him. Other characters’ problems are because they want to have it all – Tan wants the life he has, with his mother acknowledged and Eun Sang, Kim Won wants all of Jeguk, no half-brother, and a commoner as a girlfriend, Rachel wants engagement and Kim Tan, the list goes on.

I really really want Eun Sang to return the feeling to Young Do. Because it must be nice, that for once, he has someone who he likes, loves him back. No offense but there are people who have much more issues than CYD and they don't go through life abusing other people.Young Do's father and mother both suck I get it. He is bullied by his father so he bullies I get that too but that doesn't excuse him. If he wants to be loved than he has to act like he loves. He and Tan were best friends and I am sure they loved each other but instead of taking his friends reassuring words he uses them as weapons? Thats total BS.

His friend loved him and was trying to comfort him and he calls him a bastard? That makes me think that young do wouldn't know what to do even if ES loved him back- he wouldn't value her or her love. Tell me about it. Everytime I think about how sweet it was of Tan to comfort Young do and try to make him feel better by sharing his truth of being illegitimate with him, it pisses me off.

They were boys.best friends and what does YD do after he shares this with him? Starts treating him differently and refuses to go to the airport to see him off when he was exiled to America by Won. And then years later tries to blackmail Tan with the information to get him to leave school. Can you say insecure asshole? This episode did not change my feelings towards YD, because his father is abusive.

Nah, me feelings will change towards him, when HE shows signs that he no longer wants to be like his father, and it should not be because of a girl. Change should happen from within for it to lasting and sincere. What is going to happen when he loses the girl? In real life they go back to being who they really have been all the while, but not before they show that same girl they never changed in the first place. So far, he wants to follow in his father's footsteps. Therefore I feel no sympathy at all. @Ally - The point is that YD never received affection from anyone.

No one loves him unconditionally. He does not know real love, does not know how to express it, and when it is offered, he does not know what to do with it. And I understand where YD is coming from in rejecting Tan. The poor boy has seen his dad sleeping with numerous women his entire life.

And then his bf says he is the son of a mistress. In his mind, he hated Tan because Tan was the son of a woman like those who slept with his dad. I totally understand his situation and the mindset of a 15 year old. I have more compassion for YD because Tan definitely had a better life than him, has his mom with him, and she loves him unconditionally. I agree that YD and Tan did not have to be enemies but I guess YD's wounds take a long time to heal. Hoping that they will be friends again by the end of the drama. One more thing - People respond to abuse/bullying differently, especially children.

Some becomes compassionate towards others, some imitates the behavior and becomes aggressive. @Ally - YD does not know any better behavior. But he is trying to change for ES. Of course, it still comes off as messing with her but at least he is trying.

It will take some time because he has never known any better behavior. In episode 11, Rachael and YD made me cry:( As much as he is a psycho, I can't hate him. And is played well by WB. @NewFan - I agree with you. Teenagers are not rational. And when they grow up in an environment like YD does, it is rare if they don't turn out to be like him.

'No other character has such a horrible background' I honestly cannot agree. Eun Sang has no father, no house of her own, has to work her ass off for money, has to watch her mum work her ass off for money only to have her ungrateful sister steal it all away. She also has to endure ridicule at home and at school, all the while being aggressively chased by two selfish and spoiled man-children. But is she acting like a psychotic bully because the world has been unfair to her? She has a lot to deal with, returning Young Do's feelings would be the least of her concerns. What's more important is that Young Do has done nothing to deserve or warrant her affection. I don't disagree that he has a terrible role-model of a father, and it's understandable that he has a lot of pent up anger and attitude problems, but lashing it out on others the way he does is inexcusable.

I am also pretty sure Young Do got plenty of attention from Tan before he himself pushed him away, so no sympathies from me. There can be emotional abuse without physical abuse. However, when there is physical abuse there is also emotional abuse.

I am not talking about disciplinary slapping, but physical abuse to the level that YD gets from his father (choking, belt whooping, etc.). While all of the main characters (KT, ES, YD and R) have pitiful lives they also have love or someone that cares about them.

Bona and CY are main characters too but they seem like pretty happy kids overall. KT's mom loves him, ES's mom loves her. I don't know about Rachel and familial affection but I doubt she is being physically abused and I haven't seen anything that indicates that she is emotionally abused by her family. I don't get the vibe that she is, despite the confrontations with mom, at least not to the level of abuse.

I think she is being used but she doesn't seem to hate that idea and when she does is because of KT's actions and not because of her family. Only YD gets both the physical and emotional abuse in the sense that he has no one that cares about him. So, yes, his life is more pitiful than the others despite all the perks of his wealth. Hit submit too soon. YD's dad is also way more emotionally abusive than any of the other parents, constantly putting him down. At least daddy Kim has told Tan that he likes both him and Won. Then he turned all crazy in last episode but I have seen interactions that show that Tan has had it better with his dad that YD with his.

I have yet to see one single sign of affection from daddy Choi. Both physical and emotional abuse are terrible and one is no better than the other but YD gets a double decker. I think he is, in fact, more pitiful than the other characters. Except for Young Do's dad's affinity for judo, I actually don't see too much difference in how Young Do and Kim Won grew up. Both have fathers, who are promiscuous and psychologically sick and manipulative, and both have half-brothers.

In Kim Won's case, he also has to worry about KT's position in Jeguk. Therefore, I don't find Young Do's actions toward his peers completely justifiable by the environment he grew up in. I can understand Young Do's sudden animosity toward KT when he found out that KT's illegitimate, as KT is the product of the type of trauma his father and mother put him through over and over again when they date outside their marriage. Just like KT is a thorn in Kim Won's side, KT is also a source of pain to Young Do, as he would constantly remind him of the tragedy he faces at home. Young Do probably sees it as a complete betrayal on KT's part, as KT was the one that witnessed all the pains he grew up with. Yet, in the end, KT himself is a source of that type of pain. Therefore, I can accept his animosity toward KT, but NOT toward all the others he bullied.

'I’m pretty sure that both boys actually like her, but I’m also sure that they hate each other more, which sort of clouds that teeny tiny thing called motivation.' I'm surprised you think KT hates YD more than he likes ES. I think it's pretty obvious now that he cares a lot for her and has since the first day he met her in the US. Yes I get that sometimes KT is a willing participant in the pissing contest with YD, but for the most part he's usually reacting to YD's actions. I also love the little symbolisms we get in this drama. For example, ES literally crossing the line to enter KT's room/world. I like that ES is starting to show her interest more.

I also like that she's standing up for herself more when it comes to YD. Okay, I got about three minutes into this episode before I had a rage blackout. Might well be done with this show.

I'm definitely done with Tan. I've always thought he was selfish and annoying, but this is just, I can't even.

I don't care how nasty Young-do is. Nothing he has done (or could do) can justify Tan provoking his father, when he knows he's abusive. I thought I was going to be physically sick when I saw him take off his belt, and Tan just walks off with a smirk on his face. Am I supposed to root for someone who thinks he's awesome for getting someone else's dad to beat them? But what I'm trying to say is YD getting beat up by his dad wasn't KT's #1 priority. The #1 goal was to get him to back off his family.

And with nasty bullies like YD, you sometimes have to play dirty and stoop to their level. I'm not really sure what else KT could have done in that situation. YD took it too far by showing up to his home. He did what he felt he had to do and it WORKED. That's another thing I like about this show. Even the good guys aka KT, are kinda bad. Most of the characters are very flawed.

And personally, I think YD deserved a butt whooping for violently tripping ES. That wasn't playing dirty though and was beyond low. It was calculatingly manipulative (especially with how YD was like dude don't tell him, you know what will happen if you tell him).

Young-do disrespecting his mom and his instigating a beating is not on the same level. Since the show likes to reference Shakespeare; in the situation Tan reminded of Iago from Othello. Othello is the literal killer of Desdemona but the man who planted the seeds, lends him the weapon, and has her blood on his hands is Iago. Just because Young-do is a bully and violent himself does't mean the cycle of violence that cause his violent behavior should continue or be provoked in a game of who's bigger. NO one deserves to be smacked around like a rag doll or scarred by a belt, no matter how much of a shit they can be.

These two keep crossing line after line in their need to one up each other and it needs to stop. He didn't have to go there. I'll say it again. As nasty as Young-do has been, no one deserves to be beaten by their parents. To be absolutely clear: there is absolutely no justification for parental abuse. And there is absolutely no justification for someone to instigate an abusive situation, regardless of whatever shit they've pulled. And Tan didn't mess with his father.

He messed with Young-do by provoking his father into beating him. If you guys don't see how that is beyond fucked up, I'm just, I'm done. Yeah, I don't care if he has a abusive father or whatever. Young do deserved it. The dude is always starting crap with Kim tan. I am sick of people defending this dude, yeah its funny how people always ignore, what YD has done to others, but as soon as he gets what he needs, people start a complete uproar. He started the whole mess in the first place, and im glad he payed for it.

He should have never betrayed his best-friend for being a mistress son, he should have never came over to kim tan's acting like a complete dick and trying to humiliate his mother, he should have never tried to bring tan down by bring up his family and the using the problems he has within it, because this dude obviously has some seriously family problems himself. If he wants to hurt others using their problems with their relatives, then young do needs to confront his problem's himself, because its pissing me of that he is always trying to bring family into the mess he already caused. Im sooo glad tan did that. If Tan wanted to take it there he could have come up in Young-do's house and got in YD's dad face about how for all his wealth and posturing he couldn't even keep a lowly woman by his side and was cheated on/abandoned because he a bastard. He could of rubbed whatever big issue or secret of Young-do's mommy abandonment issues in his face. Basically hit them both where it really hurts: Young-do's mom. I think his retaliation of disrespecting mom and treating her like a servant is to get you whipped like a dog by your dad (which is what it would have escalated into if homegirls' phone hadn't gone off) was stepping out of bounds.

It felt like bringing a gun to a knife fight. Young-do took it far with the house visit, and then Tan took it too far with the daddy tattling beating. If the situations were reversed and Young-do instigated something that resulted in an already keyed up with pointless hate Won, smacking around Tan, you all know we would ride YD's ass from here to high noon for that psychotic shit. Tan doesn't get a pass just because YD started it first. Um, I'm not ignoring what YD has done to others. I'm saying that what he's done to others is absolutely irrelevant to the situation. I agree he shouldn't have humiliated Tan's mother and agree he shouldn't do 99 percent of the things he does.

However, knowing that someone is abused, and deliberately instigating abuse, is beyond fucked up. I feel like you guys aren't really thinking about the dynamics of domestic abuse.

That isn't comparable tripping someone or beating someone up or humiliating someone's mother. Parental abuse isn't a one-off; it's a situation in which a kid lives under the constant threat of emotional/physical violence from someone who has absolute social/moral authority and material control over them. Deliberately provoking the parent into abusing their kid for your own ends is unforgivable. Nothing can justify that kind of behavior (or getting a kick out of it, as Tan did). @Grumpy I agree with you 100%. As soon as Tan did that I was like WTF dude you are just as psycho if not more psycho than YD. You two deserve each other's f-ed up attention seeking too much pride to say I'm sorry friendship.

@Vicky, for as long as they have been friends and for all the secrets they know about each other; nope Tan defiantly knew what he was doing/getting YD into when he went and ratted to his father. It was hella cruel and 10 times worse than YD coming into his safe home and being disrespectful to his mom (not that, that action was not cruel, or immature and uncalled for). Both are such asses and ES would be better off alone. Glad I am not the only one who was so disturbed by that scene.

Like WHAT THE HELL?!?!?! How can he even do that? I get that Young-do went to his house as well and hit it where it hurt, but getting your once-friend beat up as payback, like what is wrong with him? How is he even a person, let alone somebody we should be rooting for. I swear the males in this show are such sexist pigs, except probably Chan Young (who is the best!) and Hyo Shin. Grabbing, threatening, forcefully kissing a girl is not going to make you like her. I find the affections from both Tan and Young Do's parts utterly baffling.

They don't even know the girl, or put the effort to get to know her. And why is PSH's character so bipolar. One minute I'm like finally she is standing up for herself and then the next she is just being dragged along for the ride. I swear does this writer think that abusive relationships are swoon-worthy. I noticed that in both Secret Garden (where the main guy continuously bashed on the girl for being too ordinary to be worthy of his liking), and even to a certain degree Gentleman's dignity, there is too much sexism. I don't buy that real girls would fall for this kind of treatment. Now Mirae's Choice is a drama that surprisingly explores this aspect of sexism in the workplace, and how girls are expecting certain things outside of their jobs.

It's funny how I expected more from Heirs, but now I am loving that drama. What a waste for Lee Min Ho and Kim Woo Bin, and of course Choi Jin Hyuk! THIS and also, really shocked too that people are using 'young do is awful, he deserved it' and/or 'young do did this, so kim tan is justified doing this' arguments.

People, do you even hear yourself/read whatever you wrote?! Yes, young do is an awful person. Yes, what young do did in kim tan's house is crossing the line.

And yes, young do's sob family stories are not justifications for his own behavior. No one is contesting these facts. The issue here is kim tan, and what kim tan did knowingly - there is no justification for this at all.

IMO, kim tan's recent actions put up a lot of questions regarding his characterization that deserves to be answered. Kim tan is said to be a worse bully than young do, so what made him 'change' exactly? Such drastic change in personality is surely caused by something significant.

And how are kim tan's actions to eun sang even romantic? He is engaged, and treats rachel like crap as well as rude to rachel's mother. He supposedly likes eun sang, but does not listen to her at all and is inconsiderate of her circumstances.

People are rooting for kim tan and eun sang simply because they are the main otp - but at the rate this show is going (10 episodes), in the real world eun sang would end up the being the kept woman. This is swoon worthy?! And just to show how hypocritical people are getting: in the drama 'i can hear your voice,' people are rooting for park soo ha to make the right choice because 'even if you are a victim, the moment you DO bad things then you stop being the victim and will just be a victimizer.' That statement should be and IS applicable to both young do and kim tan. So why now suddenly kim tan is 'justified' for doing what he did?! Manipulating and provoking an abusive parent to abuse his own child?! Let me break it down for you, at least the way I see it: Young-Do torments people for no reason.

Not only are his attacks unprovoked, but they serve no purpose other than gratify Young-Do's sadism. In contrast, Tan's provocation of Daddy Choi was not only justified -a direct tit for tat because of what YD did to his mother- it was necessary. Young-Do had continually tormented Tan, Eun Sang, and now Tan's mother. He did not respond to any of Tan's previous tactics, including asking him to stop, telling him to stop, ignoring him, and beating him up. In fact, not only did YD not respond, he escalated and indicated that he would keep on doing so. He left no other option for Tan than this.

Sometimes you have to speak to people in the language they understand. It may not have been nice, but in many ways it was necessary. And in no way is it comparable to Young-Do's indiscriminate, purposeless cruelty. @Faye and let me break it down to you.

Young do's behavior is NOT justified by his sob family stories. Much like what kim tan did in revenge/ in retaliation is NOT justified by young do's actions. Because that is what you are doing. Justifying what kim tan did by blaming it on young do.

You can see young do's bullying behavior as a separate thing, WHY can't you see what kim tan did (knowingly manipulating and provoking an abusive parent to abuse his own abused child) as a separate thing too?! If park soo ha committed murder in i can hear your voice, the WHY he did it (for revenge, for justice, to protect someone) does NOT matter - at the end of the day, he will simply be just a person who killed another.

So what kim tan did: knowingly manipulating and provoking an abusive parent to abuse his own abused child IS 'indiscriminate, purposeless cruelty.' Also, an individual ALWAYS have a choice, even if you think you are only left with ONE option - you actually have two at most, to do it or not to do it. @faye 1 kim tan can tell young do: 'you are crossing the line.

You do realize i could involve your father in this? So stop involving families.' 2 kim tan could still go to young do's father just saying his greetings and then leave. That is at least 2 options that kim tan could do. In both cases, kim tan is threatening young do showing him what he is capable of but still having restraints IS a much better characterization of kim tan as a 'reformed bad guy.' Have you watched ICHYV?

The guy park soo ha wanted to kill a. Killed his father, b. Almost killed soo ha when he was a child, c. Killed the mother of the girl who testified against him in court as well as a few other people, and is d. Threatening the life of the girl who testified against him in court. Park soo ha wanting to kill that person for revenge, for justice, to protect someone makes him human no?

But in the end, he did not kill that person - and that makes all the difference in the world. So he has reasons? What he did is justified?

Kim tan can tell young do: 'you are crossing the line. You do realize i could involve your father in this? So stop involving families.' Kim tan could still go to young do's father just saying his greetings and then leave. That is at least 2 options that kim tan could do (instead of doing what he did). Both cases, kim tan is threatening young do showing him what he is capable of but still having restraints IS a much better characterization of kim tan as a 'reformed bad guy.' Have you watched ICHYV?

The guy park soo ha wanted to kill a. Killed his father, b.

Almost killed soo ha when he was a child, c. Killed the mother of the girl who testified against him in court as well as a few other people, and is d. Threatening the life of the girl who testified against him in court. Park soo ha wanting to kill that person for revenge, for justice, to protect someone makes him human no? But in the end, he did not kill that person - and that makes all the difference in the world. Soo ha is the victim.

But if soo ha killed that guy, soo ha is not a victim anymore but is just a murderer. In heirs context: soo ha is kim tan, that guy is young do. Society will judge what kim tan did - intentionally, knowingly, deliberately manipulating and provoking an abusive parent to abuse his child. The WHYs kim tan did it does NOT excuse WHAT he did. I haven't made any excuses for Young-do, so I can't really speak to that. Moreover, these are two separate issues.

Making excuses for Young-do's dickishness and justifying Tan instigating an incident of child abuse are two different things. I've said this a million times: Young-do is irrelevant to my condemnation of Tan. Looking back at this comment, I think it was a bit too much, and I didn't mean to say that you guys were outright pro-child abuse. I'm sorry for that. However, the implications of your guys' comments is that you're cool with Young-do getting beaten, and a lot of you expressed visceral enjoyment to see Tan instigate an abusive situation. Moreover, a lot of you have argued that it was 'necessary' for Tan to get his father to beat him.

That is just not true. Putting aside for a moment Tan's first world problems and massive financial/social safety net, there were about a million things Tan could have done to get back at Young-do, and people have pointed them out, mainly that he could have fucked with his father or home life without actually going there, that is, deliberately causing his father to beat him. But that's beyond the point: regardless, nothing necessitates instigating child abuse; instigating child abuse cannot be justified. He might have had reasons to do what he did, but reasons are not justification. Doing the wrong thing for whatever reasons remains wrong, especially something of this scale. What is even scarier is not being sure if people are okay with it because of being actor biased in this fictional drama reality?

Or if people are okay with it because that is how they REALLY think in real world reality? Watching heirs and then reading comments made about it is just. Heirs: losing faith in humanity one episode at a time. And just putting this here: young do is an awful character, and kim tan is an awful character too - how people make the distinction of one being better than the other is quite puzzling when they are basically essentially the same. This drama is just two awful characters trying to outdo each other to be the MOST awful character. Min hyuk is essentially chan young in all his previous dramas like krystal is essentially bo na in all her previous dramas.

People liking these two characters in this drama when said characters are forgettable in other dramas is just proof of how awful the rest of the characters in heirs are too. People are more interested in the 2 minute appearance of 2 fluffy characters than the 3 main lead characters and huge side characters with potential.eun sang is such a downgrade; ruined rachel in recent episodes; wasted kim won, hyo shin, and hyun joo. Clearly there is something really wrong here. Bo na is all kinds of awesome and chan young is perfect - these two really are the best characters in this drama. @ThisThis 'Heirs: Losing faith in humanity one episode at a time' hahaha true dat. I normally don't engage in discussion, but this time I was so disturbed by what I saw I thought to myself, 'self, it would make you feel better to discuss it with other people who went through watching that.' So I was totally blindsided by the non-reaction some people have had.

I don't get how people have turned it into this YD vs KT (or worse KWB vs LMH) fan battle when I'm just like in a corner like, aaaaaah what the fuck is this drama saying to us. Mostly it just pisses me off that Heirs went there. This is just such a shallow and shittily written show that it can't take responsibility for this kind of subject matter. Totally with you here. Both of these boys suck and need to grow up.

I'm sorry, I can't swoon for the romance here in any way. I have discussed elsewhere many times how much of a psycho YD is and I am not defending him.

But Tan is another psycho, stalker, pushy dude. I get that he is trying to protect ES and be good to her but I don't feel it.

I know what I'm supposed to be feeling but the feeling never comes. Ninja Shadow Of Darkness Ps1 Iso On Psp there. We have seen YD's dad trying to choke him before, so as his ex BFF Tan probably knows that this won't just result in a light scolding. YD was way out of line and truly reprehensible talking down KT's mom and he deserved to have his ass kicked. Except that KT could have done that himself rather than involve an even bigger psycho to do the dirty work for him.

I feel sorry for ES. As hot as both these boys are I would not want to be the object of affection of either one. What can I say about YD. I find his character pretty despicable, with all the bullying and what not. I loathe him. But I have to admit, I loathe him slightly less after this episode.

His dad is not only physically abusive, but also emotionally. It's like he never really had much of a chance.

Oddly enough, most bullies have been/are being abused. And no, this definitely does not excuse his awful behavior but definitely gave us more insight into why he's the way he is. I would say I hate him 10% less now. Still hate him 90% with the 10% hate going to his dad.

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